Novel Treatments / Untitled ghost cowboy story

I appreciate your comments.  I’m actually trying to get the story to unfold through dialogue, with minimal narration except to advance the plot.  There is plenty of mystery to be had, as Steve and Judd slowly uncover the circumstances of Judd’s death; and that is filled with misinformation, twists and turns.  I’ve tried to make Judd’s character appealing, and hope that his attempts to better the straight man (steve) hold the reader’s interest while details of the mystery are revealed.  I wanted to get the pat ghost story stuff out of the way quickly so I could advance the story I wanted to tell.  I’ve found that people expect something when they read a ghost story, and I understand why it seems like I’ve given away so much up front—”what is the rest of the story going to be about if we already know all this now?”  I’m trying to combine familiar elements together in new and novel ways, a different take on the staid old ghost story.  Your comments have been in line with everything that others have said before you, which makes me wonder if there is sme way to communicate what i’ve just told you to the reader through the story.  I don’t want them to put the book down once the pat ghost story has taken place, because there is so much more I have to say.  If you have any futher suggestions along those lines, I would appreciate seeing them.  Thank you again!

Thank you for your comments and kind words.  My work is usually dialogue-heavy; given that so many writers have a problem with it, I’ve decided to master it.  After my outline I write out my dialogue so the story is revealed through it.  It keeps me from falling into the trap of telling a story through narration vs. showing a story through character interaction.  Given that your work is told through a first-person perspective, dialogue is unnecessary and might even complicate a scene.  I wanted to remove any narration from a third party (which tends to become a character in and of itself in the third person) except to state the abstract, necessary details that can’t be “seen” in print (vs. a movie, for example).

I lighten up on dialogue in places to advance the story as needed, but I think the dialogue helps the reader reveal the story in real in time along with the characters—putting the reader into the story as a silent witness to conversation just as movies put the viewer into the story.

The book is full of those cliches; how many ghost stories are out there?  How many buddy stories are out there?  How many stories of death and betrayal?  How many stories about a young man finding himself?  Murder mysteries?  What I’ve tried to do is make the story very familiar yet also very novel by putting cliched elements together in a way that hasn’t been done before.  It also helps to tell the story on a basic level; I’m dealing with complex themes and the cliches are an easy way to not re-invent the wheel.  What I’m saying is more likely to be understood when packaged in terms that are a part of the public consciousness but have never been brought together before.  Does it seem like I’m acheiving that in this sample?

“Better to ask forgiveness than permission” is an example of Judd’s teaching Steve about life.  He will do this often on a more engrossed level, and the goal is to impart those lessons to the reader like a fable, through demonstrated examples.

Thank you for your comments.  I’ve seen before where writers get defensive and explain away my criticisms as deliberate strokes on their part.  I assure you what follows is not that, and if it comes across as such it is unintentional.  I have put a great deal of thought into this story.

The tone is lighthearted, and the creepy opener is a contrast to Judd’s nature.  You would wholly expect that a ghost would be frightening, but Judd comes across rather as desperate for human interaction.  Being alone in the desert at night is terrifying for most, thus the need for creepiness; I wanted to show that not everything you encounter in the dark, scary places in the world will kill you.  Likewise, metaphorically speaking, this is my experience as a history buff in Arizona; I spend a good deal of time in the desert at night, and can imagine the events and people of the past wandering around in the darkness.  I’m left with a warm feeling, never really alone, contrary to the experience of many.    

In the first version of this story I had made the trading post immaculate (because Judd has nothing to do in all that time but clean), like it was a hollywood movie set.  In the revision I wanted Judd’s surroundings to be pathetic and forgotten.  It emphasizes some of the morals of my story, namely that as long as we remember people, they never really die.  Symbolically, Judd has been forgotten, the era he represents long passed from our consciousness.  As the reader gets to know Judd they will know he has dignity, they will come to respect him, making this home of his all the more tragic.  He cleary didn’t deserve or belong there.  

You make a good point on the dates, but I explain that Judd wandered around in the desert “for a spell” before stumbling upon the trading post some time later.  The initial desert awakening was disorienting—he didn’t need sleep, he was never hungry, hot or cold, and it took some time for him to adjust before he set off in search of some answers about his condition.  His memory of events is deliberately cloudy; Judd is blocking the painful memories that led up to his death from his consciousness because they are too painful to bear.  In essence, the physical needs of his body have been stripped away and he is a human soul personified.  The soul-searing pain he went through will manifest itself as physical pain and agony as he recalls bits and pieces of that part of his past.  The unraveling of the circumstances surrounding his death will come slowly throughout the book.  

You are spot-on about Judd’s personality though there will be occasional glimpses into a darker side of him (a side we all have, at times).  Thank you again for your review, since it helps me focus the story I want to tell vs. the story as it is read.

Okay, so I must admit that when you explain it that way it does make sense.  I would say that in further drafts, maybe see if you can say what you just said to me through your characters.  Not to sound pompous or anything but you have to make sure that anything that is important to the development of the characters be spelled out or at least enough information given that you can easily infer it.  When the book is published, you won’t have the luxury of explaining everything to the reader afterwards, so you need to make sure that you say everything that you need to say the first time out.  I’m not saying that it necessarily does need to be changed, its just that for my taste, the sudden switch in tone was a little jarring.  And maybe that won’t be so jarring once the rest of the book is played out.  I’m just saying that with the small little tidbit we’re getting here, it seems odd.

I agree about the explaination.  Does it help to know that the next section ends with a brilliant sunrise, with light streaking around the clouds?  Symbolically that was to represent a new beginning for both characters—while I didn’t intend for it, I suppose the storm and darkness immediately preceeding it (in the section I have posted) could represent the end of the dark days, the tumultous climax of everything that came before in their lives.  Or should I eliminate the storm altogether, where Steve’s curiosity of this old shack gets the better of him?  Perhaps a daylight encounter?  It’s not a pat ghost story beginning, but it might help to better set the tone that will carry the rest of the novel.  (Though Steve’s problem is he is decidedly not curious, much to Judd’s dismay.)  And was it that sudden switch in tone that primarily vexed you?  If more, what that I have explained should go into the opener, specifically?

Actually, I think that it just struck me as abrupt in the small section that you’ve posted.  Once the story gets going, I believe that the shift in tone will be so small as to be negligible.  Definitely keep the storm, it gives Steve a more organic, lifelike reason to go into the shack than pure curiosity, especially when his lack of curiosity is going to vex Judd.  All in all, I think that if this were the complete work, then I would feel very dismayed at the switch in tone.  But as long as you take the time to fit in somewhere (organically of course, nothing worse than an info-dump mid-story) all the things you’ve explained to me, then it should work fine.  If I have any suggestions for tone, my best suggestions would be to go read Gil’s All-Fright Diner by A. Lee Martinez, and pretty much anything by Joe R. Lansdale.  Diner is pretty tongue in cheek from the get go, whereas Lansdale is pretty good at balancing black comedy with sheer terror, so maybe you can read both of them and get an idea of which way you want to go, and see if you can get any pointers from the way both authors set the tone.  I really don’t have any problems with it after you’ve explained it to me, and I must admit that I must seem kind of thickheaded after needing it spoon-fed to me, but I think I have a much better understanding of where you’re going with it now.

Its just the nature of this story; I’m trying to combine familiar elements together in a novel way.  It had already proved difficult since people expect something in particular from a ghost story that they seem disappointed when they don’t get it.  My hope is that what I offer instead is refreshing and entertaining.

I appreciate the suggestions on the reads.  I’ll certainly look into them, since it can only help improve my writing ability and storytelling.  Thank you!

Good suggestions, and I am equally pleased you got rewarded with points for slogging through the revision; it’s only fair.

Thank you for your review.  The boulder jumped out of the water due to the force of the water flow in a normally dry desert wash.  I’ve had a few people who didn’t like that image, but I wanted to convey the (realistic) power of the water.

Good point on the shiver.  On the inner dialogue, I’d tried this section with a good deal of Steve’s thoughts in italics.  The problem was since Steve is trying to humor Judd while getting away (saying one thing, thinking another) it seemed like there were three people in the scene; Judd, Steve’s words and Steve’s thoughts.  So I nixed it in this section.  Steve really is a two-dimensional character, a point of frustration with Judd who tries to liven him up.

I think I’m striking the right balance of humor in the story—it’s not over the top, but it comes from the friction of Judd and Steve interacting, almost on a brotherly level.  Judd takes time to set up and explain life-lessons for Steve becuase he thinks he’s too soft.  Steve wants to get rid of Judd because he’s forcing him outside his comfort zone, so we see the story of how Judd died slowly unraveling throughout the story.

I’ll post more as I get more edited.  Thank you again!

Please let me know when you post more – I’d love to read/review it!
-Eanon

Thanks.  I’ll be posting another section soon.  I’m not one to clog up the review queue with every chapter of my work; I post sections I’d like feedback on.  Opening are always important but once I’ve established my narrative voice I just carry it through the rest of my piece.

That said, the next section I’ll be posting has to do with a hinge of the rest of the story.  It’s not in sequence with the opening however, but takes place later.  If I can’t pull it off in the section I’ll have posted, I know I’ll have to rework major segments of the story.  Just touching it up now based on suggestions I’ve recieved on the opening.

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

Thank you for your comments.  You’re not alone in saying I’m too wordy.

The boulder was thrown out of the water by the force of the water.  Every storm out here the news carries video of some shit-kicker getting pulled from a raging torrent of water cause he underestimated the forces it carries and thought he could drive through it.  It happens so much the cops and rescue services are charging people for the costs of their rescues.  This was a demonstration of the power of the water.

Thanks.  What comments about Phoenix and Tempe are you referring to exactly?  What specifically did Steve say considering his age?

Yeah as far as formatting, I’m not sure how to indent a new paragraph on Urbis.  Tab works on Word, but online it moves your cursor to different fields or buttons.

I appreciate your comments.  The white space is a formatting thing here.  I can’t figure out how to indent a paragraph on Urbis posts, so I separate paragraphs to alleviate any confusion.

Judd looks like he’s in his late 30’s, which was mentioned in the first version but I see now I had cut it—I need to put that back in.  The pregnant comment helps to establish Steve as a bit of a smartass, and Judd’s reaction is to establish that he’s not participating in the conversation on Steve’s level.

The directions are to emphasize Steve’s disbelief that someone living in Arizona wouldn’t be familiar with the state’s capital, or the home of the largest university in the state.  I considered it a natural reaction, but perhaps it is not.

Yeah I have to tinker with the rain stuff.  He’s doing it to teach Steve a lesson—the story is filled with Steve suffering lessons through experience.  It’s like a kid sticking his finger in an electrical outlet. . .  . sure, you can tell him not to, but if you let him do it he’ll know why he should never do it again.

I hope there isn’t such a thing as too much dialogue!  I use it to move the story along quickly rather than get bogged down in narration.  Everything that’s said either advances the story or establishes character.  Maybe it’s not for everyone, but it’s my writing style.  As long as it’s done well, I figure it can’t hurt, can it?

Thank you for your comments.  There is indeed more conflict between the past and the present, over a variety of subjects.  I wanted to establish Judd’s status as a bonafide ghost early on, so I could get to those kinds of things in the section following this one.  Judd will be like a big brother to Steve, teaching him how to pick up women, chew tobacco, ride a horse and win a barfight, all while trying to understand the new world he finds himself in (run-ins with Mexicans, Native Americans, phones, television, movies—even an accidental night at a gay fraternity’s Old West theme party).

Haha wow….sounds like a lot. Keep me posted.