Poetry / White as Snow

As far as the first line being self-congratualory, if I didn’t like my own poetry I wouldn’t write it. Wouldn’t it make sense to consider one’s own work, “fine”. If not, I don’t see why anybody would write for pleasure in the first place.
The use of the word you’re is only problematic if you make it so. “You’re” being a conjuction of “you” and “are”, is pretty easy to understand. I think we learn that one about 1st or 2nd grade.
The reason I structured the poem the way I did was to emphasize the lines that stood apart from the rest of the stanza. I don’t really see any problems that are created by doing so. Other than it makes you think about why I aparted those lines from the rest of the stanzas, which was the intent.
I guess there is no real “need” to rhyme in the second line of the second stanza, yet I chose to.  I don’t see why this was problematic. It is my own opinion that it adds to the musicality of the poem and helps to keep it flowing well. As far as using the word just in the first and second lines, I can see where you are coming from here and it stuck out for me as well. However, I left it because I liked the way it sounded when I read it aloud.
Ugh here we go with cliche… You know, caliing something cliche is cliche, so your point doesn’t come across very well. It’s like yelling at someone for yelling at you. “They leave me no other choice” was fundamental to what I was trying to express.
Using “do” in first line of the third stanza is a valid point. Although, I didn’t feel it was too far-fetched to use here, though you may have a point.
I guess I could take out “just” in the 3rd line 3rd stanza.
I don’t even know how to retort to your comment of the third line of the fourth stanza, perhaps you need to read it again, because you aren’t making sense. The rhyme isn’t forced, I chose those words because they work specifically well with what I was expressing.
I agree with the 1st line 5th stanza, I’ll remove “Remember that”.
Thank you for taking the time to review my work. I hope you enjoyed it.

Oh, it’s not a problem at all to consider one’s work in a favorable light, or even to be biased. However, are you telling the reader that you like your own poetry? If so why? Does the poem not stand on it’s own, without your pitching it within the text itself?

The problems ‘you’re’ causes perhaps are technical. Here is the deal as I see it. You have the word ‘know’ preceding it. This often falls in a phrase in the form, “Know your work,” or, “Know your widgets.” It is a multiple meaning word. It is an ‘ow’ sound combined with an ‘ow’ sound (know-you’re). And it puts a big round sound within a smooth line. You have ‘know’ in the preceding line so you are doubling up on words (poetic disaster in many if not most cases). So, you see, it isn’t a third grade assessment, it is a problem. It is a matter of refining the poem, of tuning it to its finest state. Whether or not you wish to do this if of course you problem.

As to the arrangement, I’m not sure how those lines stand apart from the rest of the point. You can of course assume that I either don’t know what I’m talking about, or that I’m to obtuse to ‘get it’. That’s your prerogative. If the voice had some cohesion to it, in the form of the separation of the single lines that would make sense, there would be no problem. For instance, you could have the lines speak as a single voice, as in his words. Or, you could have the separate lines speak as a separate concept, as in ‘the distant roll of ominous thunder’. I simply see no pattern in them. They read more like a, “This can be cool.” gimmick, that isn’t well understood.

The problem with the rhyme in the second stanza is as I said, you don’t adhere to that scheme. Art is a function of craft, not a function of accident. Anyone who tells you otherwise either doesn’t know what he or she is talking about or is lying to you in order to cover their own incompetence.

Rhyming poetry is like a song. There is a beat. If you start in with the rhyming you must adhere to a beat. Yes, you can get clever with this, but that only means a complicated beat. Otherwise, you set the mind of the reader up to expect a pattern. If you cannot hold this pattern you confuse the reader. Yes, some people won’t be confused, but some people simply aren’t very sensitive, and that is the long and short of it.

Your circular reasoning about cliches aside, here is the problem with them: You, as a poet, are playing with nuance. The level of art you bring to a poem is the level at which you can play with nuance. If you can create two meanings in one phrase that are both close enough together, within the context of the poem, to play almost at once in the mind of the reader, and far enough apart to ‘cause the spark to fly the gap’ you have succeeded in the art of poetry. A cliche is a construct that has a meaning that is narrowed by its common usage in the vernacular, you limit the possibility of creative meaning. You also, in a manner of speaking, create a flat note in your poem. Yes, there are places in poems that cliches are okay. But that is a matter of intent, it comes at a cost, and skill is necessary.

In the third line of the fourth stanza you are rhyming ‘steer’ with ‘fears’. Again, this isn’t a device you are keeping or manipulating within the body of the poem. It’s just there. What does it mean. I can think about it and figure it out, but certainly isn’t obvious and once figured out there is no aha, only a, “Why did he do that?” In other words, what exactly is being steered? And when I figure out what is being steered, what new image did I gain for the effort? Is it that the object of the poem is being steered? I already knew that.

Writing a poem is a simple thing to do. My first poem, when I was 8 or 9, went like this:

It is falling today
The father of flowers in May
The April showers, that bring may flowers
The flowers that bloom in May.

As you can see, it IS a poem. But, as you can also see, it isn’t much of a poem. Being a poet, to me, isn’t a matter of flicking out a few sentimentalities, cleverly arranged, and subjectively deep. It is the same thing to me as throwing a pot. I want the composition to be as good as it can be. I want the difficult parts tuned into place, I want compositional integrity. I want the crafting of the piece to be completed at the top end of my skill. I assume everyone here desires the same thing. I realize this isn’t the case, but out of respect for those that do, I must assume it.

You certainly aren’t compelled by any stretch to take my judgements on any part of your poem to heart. I will be wrong in some cases since I’m not perfect. I only intend to give you my honest impression of the work you presented for critique. If it helps you, that is good. If it does not, that is fine too. I at least gave it my best effort.

Joel.

I can see the aspect in which you choose to appreciate poerty, and I believe it adds to the spectrum of poetry as a whole. However, to add my own peice to the spectrum as well, I would have to say that you are being far too technical. To me, poetry isn’t meant to be so constricted. Overall, I think you are ‘making a mountain out of a mole hill.’
All forms of art are free and open to interpretation. I can appreciate the technical aspect of poetry, but if you get too technical you take away from what poetry and any art is all about, a form of expression for the artist. I think you should learn how to appreciate poetry in a much more simple light. You may find yourself understanding the artist in a greater way, rather than getting stuck on the little things and missing the true essence entirely.

Many are led to think this way. Especially those just out of school. I’m a professional artist. When you make your living selling your stuff you get a good idea what people truly appreciate. Anyone can tell you they like something, but if they are willing to spend money on it, it’s because they factually like it.

As an artist I can assure you that art isn’t all over the place. It isn’t just about what the artist ‘feels’. We get potters to apprentice for us out of college and they have no control. They have no sense of form, or structure. Basically, they are no better than someone we hire off the street. And in many ways they are worse since some professor has sold them a bag of goods. They want to make a thing how they want to make them. Thus, they cover up their lack of form with embellishments, and it sits around for months waiting for someone who is looking for something ‘kooky’.

Feel free to believe that poetry isn’t a craft. That, again, is your prerogative. Yes, you cannot make money off of it (unless some political group advances you). But I assure you it is a craft. It requires both skill and talent. And like the rest of the art forms, too many believe that the talent is more important than the craft.

Good luck with your writing,

Joel.

If we base everything off of what we can make a profit from, we lose the true concept of “art”. Art being the product of human creativity and expression, not the product of technicalities, rules, boundaries, profit, and the like. To say that something absolutely HAS to be a certain way and there are no exceptions impedes what art truly is. Besides, how can you stipulate creativity and self expression?
I have been approached by publishers about my poetry and I have denied them. Why? Because I don’t write for fame, financial gain, or anything of the sort. I write because it is a way for me to express myself and my beliefs without someone being as objective as they would be if we engaged in a conversation. I enjoy organinzing my thoughts and writing them out poetically. I like to feel inspired by what I find to be beautiful in life, and poetry is one way for me to meditate on that.
I hope you can see where I am coming from.

I see where you are coming from, but I wrote this poem for a very particular group of people. It’s understandable if it doesn’t quite click for you because we all can’t relate easily wtih one another. This poem is written more for the person with a deep sense of despair, as I have lived and seen in my own life. And this poem is inevitably my attempt at relating and instilling hope with people who have felt something similar.
Thank you for your feedback.

Makes sense! Everyone has a goal in their writing, and I generally assume that people who come here are looking for mass appeal. Doesn’t mean they have to be. I’m glad this achieved what you wanted it to.

You have a point, but the abrupt use of words that didn’t fit the rhyme scheme was intentional. Purple prose is a powerful poetic tool. I want the reader to stop and think about what is being written and especially at points I made apparent in the poem.

Think about what is being written and then see where the words that don’t fit the rhyme scheme fall. Words have personality, especially if you know how to use them.

Jeff, it’s more than just rhyme scheme I objected to.  I read your poem again.  It’s jarring and not in a positive way, so as to make you think and feel.  It doesn’t do that at all, appearing instead to be a singer who suddenly forgets his voice and begins, unintentionally, to talk instead of singing.  No, you don’t indulge in purple prose, which is usually some brilliant passage in an otherwise mediocre work.  You seem to indulge in the opposite, brilliant work with passages of fuzzy prose, veering into the infrared rather than the ultraviolet.  You asked me to read it again with the comments you made regarding the way I should see your poem.  Now, I ask you for the same thing.  Read it “aloud” so that you can hear how mellifluously alive it is until it strikes those sour notes, which does nothing to elevate thought or feeling, in fact, doing exactly the opposite.  Are you so convinced that your poem is perfect that you are unwilling to consider this.  Arrogance is not a virtue, and perfection is hardly attainable, but it is certainly worth aspiring to.  

Haha, bravo. I can definitely see where you are coming from, please excuse my zealous nature.
While I can see where you are coming from, I cannot possibly revise this poem. It would torture, and inevitably break my heart to do so.
It’s something I wrote at 3AM for no apparent reason; The words just came to me as any natural thought.
It speaks so much from my heart and expresses exactly what I intended to.
Literature/publish worthy wise, I can see where you are coming from, and you are absolutely right on. Thanks for the eye-opener.
And yes perfection can be reached, and it yes, it is absolutely worth aspiring to. Have a look at my poem “Battlefield Earth”

It takes a big man to consider another viewpoint, especially as regards a brainchild one has nurtured and loved.  You write brilliantly, and because you have an open mind to constructive criticism, you will prosper your next child into a powerful poem we may someday read and study in textbooks.  I know what you mean about not wanting to change a thing about this poem.  For you it is complete and beautiful, just like your baby girl smiling up at you after she’s lost her first baby tooth.  Flaws and all, she’s still beautiful, maybe more beautiful because of it.  Bravo to you.